Mental Health EAP

Do you have a Mental Health EAP? Do you have a athletic injury EAP?

Dr. Hector Lopez of SMASA shares some of the tips for building a mental health EAP for Athletic Trainers

Complete the course work to earn Category A CEUs sponsored by Methodist Healthcare Sports Medicine of San Antonio

Have you planned what to do in the event of a suicide threat or attempt?

The secondary setting is harder because we are dealing with minors

A good understanding of mental health

Video from YouTube – For NCAA student Athletes’ Mental health: a more educated approach

NCAA Sports Science Institute mental health awareness

According to the WHO it is a state of wellbeing in which the individual realizes his or her own abilities.

Mental illness refers to diagnosable mental disorders and health conditions

There is a stigma that it is a weakness

Myths about Mental health:

  • Children do not get mental health issues – 75% begin before age 24
  • Personality weakness or character flaws cause them
  • I can not do anything for a person with mental health problems


  • Anxiety
  • Eating disorders
  • Major depression
  • PTSD
  • Adjustment disorder
  • Social anxiety
  • Bipolar disorder
  • Substance abuse
  • Co-existing learning disabilities
  • ADHD
  • Autism spectrum
  • Chronic Medical illness
  • Bullying
  • Hazing
  • Relationship Abuse
  • Sexual Assault
  • Gender Dysphoria
  • Unexpected Pregnancy
  • Gambling
  • Undiagnosed medical issue
  • Stressors affecting athletes
  • Team culture
  • Pressure to perform
  • Balancing demands

Identifiers for a mental health EAP

ID based on performance

Injury causes isolation or forced retirement

Burnout due to early specialization

Poor performance

“I can’t show weakness”

Dealing with injured athletes:


What does the injury mean to the athlete?

What is your team and AT Clinic culture?

Educate about the diagnosis

Correct any misinformation

Provide a road map for recovery

“Dr. google is a big problem in my world”

An emotional response to an injury is normal




Lack of motivation



Changes in appetite

Sleep disturbance


Response to injury

Stress can lead to increased injury, muscle tension, poor concentration, and performance

Can trigger depression

Problematic emotional responses

Persistent symptoms

Worsening symptoms

Excessive symptoms

Summary of possible symptoms

Barriers to care:


Poor understanding

Difficulty willing to express

Lack of time



Worried about it affecting play

Not accessible


  • Increased awareness
  • Social support
  • Encouragement from others
  • Accessibility
  • A positive relationship with staff
  • Confidentiality
  • Time
  • Integration into athlete life
  • Positive past experiences
  • Ease of expressing emotion

Treating injured Athletes

  • Rapport is key
  • Supportive culture
  • Respect privacy
  • Acknowledge and understand their identity may be tied to athletics
  • May be the first injury for them
  • Be on alert for red flags

Mental Health EAP TIPS

Interview the athletes away from other athletes or with another staff member if possible

Ask open-ended questions

If the concern is self-harm be blunt

Actively listen and allow them to talk without interruption



Any talk of self-harm or suicide

Talking about hopelessness and empty

Making a plan for killing themselves

Talking about great guilt or shame.

Suicide hotline

5 steps graphic

Identifty an Emergency

  • maintain safety for yourself and others
  • Call for help
  • Talk in a quiet place where you can defuse the situation
  • Do not leave the student alone but do not place yourself in danger
  • Develop policy and procedure and practice them


Your responsibility is to recognize and refer


  • PPE
    • Are you stressed
    • Do you want to weigh more or less
  • Open-ended questions – 
    • are you sad, do you feel hopeless, do you feel safe
  • What are the protocols at your institution
    • Emergency scenarios
    • Keep names and numbers accessible
    • What about after hours?
    • National suicide prevention hotline
      • 800-273-TALK
      • Text – “help” to 741741

Resources on NCAA website

NATA has a list of resources as well

Sports Science Institute through NCAA

What your school says “we don’t talk about that?”

Start the conversation – they may not know

Use the models that are published

If you are going to bring a problem forward, bring a solution.

Lean heavily onto your team physician.

Get someone’s copy to help you build yours.

Do not be afraid to act…call 911 if need be.

Watch the Facebook live

Contact us:

Dr. Hector Lopez –

Shawn Ready@ShawnReady_ATC

Jeremy Jackson@MrJeremyJackson

Get your CEUs

Financial Partners

Frio Hydration – Superior Hydration products.

MioTech – meeting all of your sports medicine supply needs – use promo code “1FREECOURSE” to start for free

Donate and get some swag (like Patreon but for the school)

DragonflyMax – one-stop EMR

HOIST – no matter your reason for dehydration DRINK HOIST

MedBridge Education – Use “TheSMB” to save some, be entered in a drawing for a second-year free, and support the podcast.

Marc Pro – Use “THESMB” to recover better.

Sports Science and Medicine Converge

Dr. Paul Saenz shares how the San Antonio Spurs have used Sports Science to help their Sports Medicine.

Complete the course work to earn Category A CEUs sponsored by Methodist Healthcare Sports Medicine of San Antonio

Sports Science, Sports Medicine, dr. Paul Saenz

The Spurs have always been on a leading edge of performance have looked at best practices around the globe.

The sports medicine team consists of at least 10 positions with multiples at several of these positions.

ATs serve as the backbone and primary interface between the players and the medical team.

WHY monitor?

  • Direct Feedback
  • Injury prevention
  • Performance enhancements
  • Rehabilitation baselines

Key facets of Athletic Performance


Aerobic Capacity


Recovery – has replaced the word “rest” – its intentional

Psychological Wellness – they fill out these surveys onn a daily basis

What to Monitor with Sports Science

Games and Training – volumes and intensity

Player Strength and conditioning

Fatigue / Recovery

Player Availability ( injury incidence and prevalence)

Types of Loads

External – the physical load they have endured

  • Road cyclist – mean power output for given duration – 400 watts for 30 minutes

Internal – how have they responded physiologically

  • HR, RPE, Blood lactate, cortisol, testosterone, inflammatory biomarkers

External Load Monitoring

Time Motion analysis – GPS and digital video movement analysis

Accelerometer Data – 

  • Catapult system – GPS wearable system that monitors elapsed exercise time.

Neuromuscular function

The huge collection of data requires the skill to extrapolate and draw conclusions.

Internal Load Monitoring

RPE – Relative Perceived Exertion

Heart Rate Response



Adductor Squeeze

Dorsi-flexion lunge

Isometric lunge

RPE Scale

Self-determined assessment of exercise intensity

Correlates well with heart rate

Blood draws can be done during this time.

Cardio Recovery

Heart Rate Recovery – how quickly your heart rate returns to normal

Markers of fatigue vs fitness

Yo-Yo Intermittent Recovery Test

Salivary Biomarkers

testosterone /Cortisol markers of stress and recovery

Anabolic vs Catabolic state

Adductor Squeeze

Done with a blood pressure cuff

Very well documented with European teams

Recovery Methods

Light cardio


Cryotherapy –  whole body cryotherapy

– reduces edema and positive effects on the autonomic system

Pulsed compression –  NormaTec type

  • Convenient for air travel or post-game

Aquatic Therapy – 



Measures ongoing hamstring health over the course of the season

Which Sports Science Tests to Choose?

Most relevant to your use

Practical implementation

Most reliable

Produce actionable intel

Key points to make it effective

Make sure your athletes understand

Make sure your coaches understand

Be consistent in implementation

Consider the data but make clinical decisions

What about electronic recovery units like Compex, MarcPro or Firefly

These are great options

Do not forget cold tubs or 


Stationary bikes

Group session in a pool

How do we apply the Sports Science data in our high schools?

Focus more on periodization of training.

COVID19 emphasizes the need for that.

The Yo-Yo test is simple and easily performed

Talking to your athletes individually

Contact Us:

Jeremy Jackson

Dr. Paul Saenzget a hold of Shawn Ready

Shawn Ready – @ShawnReady_ATC

Financial supporters that make the podcast possible.

Frio Hydration – Superior Hydration products.

MioTech – meeting all of your sports medicine supply needs – use promo code “1FREECOURSE” to start for free

Donate and get some swag (like Patreon but for the school)

DragonflyMax – one-stop EMR

HOIST – no matter your reason for dehydration DRINK HOIST

MedBridge Education – Use “TheSMB” to save some, be entered in a drawing for a second-year free, and support the podcast.

Marc Pro – Use “THESMB” to recover better.

Sports Science

Complete the course work to earn Category A CEUs sponsored by Methodist Healthcare Sports Medicine of San Antonio

Sales Success as an AT

Casey Paulk has experienced Sales Success as an Athletic Trainer. Not because he was naturally gifted but because he knows what an AT is and does and continues to work hard to help meet the needs of Athletic Trainers.

Sales Success with Casey Paulk

What were some exposures you had to sales as a kid?

First time I had sales success was as an intern in the Texas Rangers AAA as a bullpen catcher.

I had to convince and prove to the staff I was qualified for the job.

I was able to help the Athletic Training staff more and the team more.

I also had to sell my services as an AT Skiatook Middle School as an AT and science teacher.  They had never had an Athletic Trainer before.

What was your first job ever?

Garage door warehouse grunt.

I worked in the Oklahoma summer heat hauling garage doors.

It was a grind and hard work.  It helped me succeed in my career as an Athletic Trainer and now in my career in sales with Sway

What does the life of an AT Sales Success person look like?

So now with my sales job I still work a lot of hours but I can set a few more boundaries.

I wake up early to check emails and line up my day.

Take care of personal business and spend time with the family.

Start making phone calls to Athletic Trainers (I do not call when they are sleeping or doing morning treatments)

Why do you love the sales side of AT?

Serving the Athletic Trainers and helping them return their athletes safely to participation.

I cover 14 states as a sales rep so I have a lot of phone calls and emails to get out.

The same process of evaluating an injury as an AT has helped me have sales success.

Athlete: “Hey, my knee hurts.”

AT: “Tell me what happened, when did it start hurting, what makes it better, what makes it worse?”

Athlete: answers questions…

Athletic trainer: perform tests and evaluates the next steps needed

Athlete: “I do not think that will work for me… or ok let’s do it”

It is the same with sales.

To the AT who is on the fence, what would you say?

Reach out to an AT in sales and tell them you are interested.

See if you can do some part time work in sales of any sort.

Go shadow Casey for a day or week and see what it is like.

There are jobs out there but unless you tell people you are looking for one they will not know.

Golden Rule for Sales Success:

Look to help and serve your customers and be sure you believe in the product.

Houston Methodist, Official Healthcare provider of Pasadena ISD just signed up with SWAY.    

Call to action:

Reach out to Casey Paulk at Sway for questions about sales, life in Oklahoma, or basically any product that can help your patients get better.

Watch the Facebook live conversation

Contact Us:

Casey Paulk – 918-688-8599

Email: casey.paulk@swaymedical

Jeremy – @MrJeremyJackson on FB, IG and Twitter

Sway Medical

Doctorate Degree as an AT

Seeking your Doctorate Degree? Which one should you choose: DAT, Ph.D., or Ed.D.?

Dr. Matthew Drescher earned his DAT and is enrolled in a Ph.D. program at Indiana State University. Dr. Nikki Harris earned her DAT and is enrolled in a Ph.D. program. Scott Mullet just enrolled in a Ed.D program.

Join the conversation to see why they chose their doctorate degree. After listening to the podcast reach out to them and ask your specific questions.

We recently recorded a podcast on the DAT where Mat discussed the ins and outs of that program.

We followed that up with a podcast about the PhD as an AT

Scott Mullett joins the podcast to discuss why he chose the EdD in Interprofessional Leadership

Which doctorate degree should Stephone baker choose?

What would be a salary difference between the PhD and DAT and EdD?

Do not chase the dollar signs…

Why should I consider the DAT?

There is a shift in our profession

How have your young professionals been able to balance the workload and earning a doctoral degree?  

Start practicing good time management now.

Make sure the stakeholders in your life are fully aware of the demands.

Balance is an inaccurate word.  It is not equal, but we emphasize or focus on certain things at different times.

How can I use my Doctoral degree in AT?

We got the turf replaced by tracking the data and telling the admin.

It is a multiplier 

“What can you not do?”

Any funding available for earning these doctorates?

Athletic Trainers do a really bad job of asking…we just assume there is not any.

University settings usually have terminal degree programs if you stay on for a certain amount of time.

Preceptors can earn credits at certain programs.

Watch the Doctorate Degree Facebook video (there was an audio issue…be warned)

Contact Us:

Matthew Drescher – Email: 

Twitter: @Matt_Drescher

IG: @Dreschem


IG: @indianastatedat

Twitter: @isuathltraining

Dr. Nikki Harris – @YoungProf_AT

Scott Mullett –
Jeremy –

These people LOVE ATs and help the SMB pay the bills:

Frio Hydration – Superior Hydration products.

MioTech – meeting all of your sports medicine supply needs – use promo code “1FREECOURSE” to start for free

Donate and get some swag (like Patreon but for the school)

DragonflyMax – one-stop EMR

HOIST – no matter your reason for dehydration DRINK HOIST

MedBridge Education – Use “TheSMB” to save some, be entered in a drawing for a second-year free, and support the podcast.

Marc Pro – Use “THESMB” to recover better.; 1freecourse; continued; Physical therapy

Meghan Johnson

Meghan Johnson is a College Athlete, Credentialed Athletic Trainer, Softball Team Captain and graduate student.

Dr. Krystal Tyree asked to hear more of her story so Joel over at Athletic Training Chat and I split the interview. Check out Meghan's background interview before or after this one.

Meghan Johnson

My friend Joel over at ATChat already interviewed Meghan so go check that one to get the first part of Meghan’s story. 

Meghan, what is your dream job as an AT?

My dream job is not really out on the market.  I think I need to create it.

I want to work with college athletics caring for the mental health aspect of injuries and rehab. 

How important is working in college athletics?

In my undergrad clinical rotations I had a good bit of experiences including: secondary schools, private schools, public schools, Collegiate Division three. 

I got to kind of dabble in a little bit of everything in my clinical rotations.

I'd be very happy working wherever would give me the opportunity to marry these two concepts of Counseling and Psychology and Athletic Training

Dr. Krystal Tyree – what did your exposure to being an AT and Athlete look like?

College Basketball player

Tore my ACL

Transferred school and tore it again.

I decided not to continue with basketball as the mental health aspect was weighing heavy on me.

I focused on finishing my degree and becoming an Athletic Trainer.

Meghan, are sports over for you?

I still have next year left to play sports.

I am in my 3rd year of playing softball and my first year of graduate school.  I have one more year of schooling and softball then I will do the clinical requirements.

Dr. Tyree, what would you have said to Meghan about playing and finishing up your studies?

Great job, I could not do it because I wanted to work and earn some money and move out of the dorms.  We did not have any real mental health coaching back then.

Meghan, are you currently working as an AT?

I actually do pick up per diem hours so I can work at my own pace and focus on school and softball as much as possible.

Is there a struggle with just being the athlete and not the athletic trainer on the team?

We have a lot of athletic training students who play sports.  Our university is pretty good at referring to the AT Facility and staff when we are in season.

Of course there is still a struggle with setting those boundaries for myself and my teammates.

If there was an emergency then I would obviously step in but otherwise they went to the on duty person.

Life balance: How did you do it with being an AT student and softball captain? 

I learned not to spread myself too thin.

I did what I had to but I do not think I would enjoy continuing at that pace.

I had to learn to fill up my cup before I could pour out and fill up others.

Was there anything you wish you had said yes to but could not?

A team doctor tried to connect me with and athlete patient of theirs to discuss the mental health aspect of recovery.

I was scared and unsure of myself.

If you had to choose being an athlete or athletic Trainer which would you have chosen and why?

I would choose Athletic Training if I had to choose one but that is a really hard decision.

BOC results just came back. Did you pass on the first try?

Yes, but it is only a test, and if you failed then do not let that define you.  Prepare and take it again.

Contact Us:

These people LOVE ATs and help the SMB pay the bills:

Frio Hydration – Superior Hydration products.

MioTech – meeting all of your sports medicine supply needs – use promo code “1FREECOURSE” to start for free

Donate and get some swag (like Patreon but for the school)

DragonflyMax – one-stop EMR

HOIST – no matter your reason for dehydration DRINK HOIST

MedBridge Education – Use “TheSMB” to save some, be entered in a drawing for a second-year free, and support the podcast.

Marc Pro – Use “THESMB” to recover better.

FrioHydration; frio hydration; Get Frio; Best in class; Waterboy; wisstech; hydration station; sports medicine broadcast; Jeremy Jackson; Rob McFarlin

PhD for an AT

The teacher of philosophy or PhD is usually a research-focused degree. Dr. Matt Drescher is seeking his because he wanted to answer some questions. He also sees his career leading him to teaching the Athletic Trainers of tomorrow.


What is the PhD?

The term doctor comes from – to teach

A doctor is a teacher and there are obviously many different versions.

Technically medical doctor are physicians

Doctor of philosophy which is theory and application of that theory.

You are doing the research to create the theories

Not always applying them into practice

The art form of a PhD is being able to apply the abstract idea into practice.

The EdD is similar to the DAT – advanced clinical practice degree.

Which ones would benefit an AT?

Core Values…make your connection towards that.

I am really curious about the answers to these abstract things.  I want to find the answers to the questions.

Being able to read the research and synthesize that to your patient population.

What programs are good for an AT to earn a PhD?

Core Values

Medical school

PT School

Ph.D. – education



Basically anywhere

What paths have you seen ATs pursue after earning a PhD?

The PhD is kind of like the steward that is guiding the profession through the profession and towards growth.

Most Ph.D. ATs have practiced but were not getting answers so they went to find them.

Only about 10% of people finished their PhD globally.

Why should I not choose the PhD?

  • To make more money
  • Ok with taking the facts (do not really dig into the details)
  • If it does not fit your core value

Simon Sinek the infinite game

Final thought:

If you have those questions reach out to a researcher in that field and start to work in that area.

Contact Us

Jeremy Jackson

Matthew – Email: 

Twitter: @Matt_Drescher

IG: @Dreschem


IG: @indianastatedatTwitter: @isuathltraining

These people LOVE ATs and help the SMB pay the bills:

Frio Hydration – Superior Hydration products.

MioTech – meeting all of your sports medicine supply needs – use promo code “1FREECOURSE” to start for free

Donate and get some swag (like Patreon but for the school)

DragonflyMax – one-stop EMR

HOIST – no matter your reason for dehydration DRINK HOIST

MedBridge Education – Use “TheSMB” to save some, be entered in a drawing for a second-year free, and support the podcast.

Marc Pro – Use “THESMB” to recover better.

What is the DAT – Doctorate of Athletic Training

Is the DAT the right choice for your advanced degree? Should you pursue your Ph.D. or maybe an Ed.D.?

Dr. Matthew Drescher, a PhD candidate, already earned his DAT from ISU and joins me to answer some of my questions. In the next two podcast we will discuss the Ph.D. and Ed.D. and compare them.


What is the DAT

The DAT is a post professional degree program. It's a clinical doctorate stands for Doctorate of Athletic Training.

Most of the programs that are currently across the country are focused on clinical education, advanced clinical education and clinical leadership, but I kind of looked at in a different light so I tend to look at it as a metaphysical idea

It's a mindset to meet the gap is a commitment to the profession to be the leader and push forward.

  • Promote advanced practice leadership
  • Promote us as a profession as healthcare providers
  • Helping lead the profession forward

We understand that's a hard thing to do, but we can do hard things and the DAT is a commitment to that mindset to continue doing what's right for the profession and moving it forward.

– Dr. Matthew Drescher

What would I expect out of my DAT education?

The beauty of the post professional degree, is that it can be marketed to the market. So, all of the programs, hit on the same central tenets, but they all do them in a different way.

When you're thinking about going into this level of education, it's really about aligning that with your values.

Part what I learned in the ISU DAT was really how to be a clinical leader, what it looks like to be that person, the person who does hard things, the person who asks the hard questions.

Promoting yourself as a lifelong learner, that's something that I value immensely. Some other programs focus on different aspects.

At ISU we focus a lot on manual therapy and advanced manual therapy skills, some programs focus on more of the leadership aspect. Or they focus on what we call practice-based research, but each program has a little bit of a nuance.

What you would expect from a DAT program is that mindset of thinking differently.  

The DAT should help make changes at the system level. How do you think that that helps me get Athletic Trainers into the intermediate setting?

I think you make a really good point. I guess you could call it the clout, having that title of Dr. Jackson would bring.

But part of that mindset of the DAT is that it's not really about the degree to the outside world.

It's, an easier concept to understand that you're a doctor versus You're not a doctor but when you're with,

The concept is not necessarily the clout, but it's the skill and the knowledge to be able to make the changes to know the steps to how those changes have to be made. You can't just run in and say, put an athletic trainer here, please. It's knowing how to line up all of the blocks to work with you and that's what I mean more about a systems level change.

Because at that level, the systems are dynamic, and they're complex, so being able to know how to speak that language to align the blocks to prove that value and worth. That's something, those are skills that the DAT degree can give you.

On top of the confidence and credibility that the degree itself carries, I would argue that your experience carries a lot, but you are also going to have to explain what that means to someone who's not familiar with athletic training, whereas the degree on top of your experience and then on top of that, those skills are going to help you carry that effort.

I look at it more of like a medium to carry the skill versus a be all end all.

Check out the podcast or video for more questions and answers about the ISU DAT program.

Contact Us:

Matthew – Email: 

Twitter: @Matt_Drescher

IG: @Dreschem


IG: @indianastatedat

Twitter: @isuathltraining

Jeremy: @MrJeremyJackson

These people LOVE ATs and help the SMB pay the bills:

Frio Hydration – Superior Hydration products.

MioTech – meeting all of your sports medicine supply needs – use promo code “1FREECOURSE” to start for free

Donate and get some swag (like Patreon but for the school)

DragonflyMax – one-stop EMR

HOIST – no matter your reason for dehydration DRINK HOIST

MedBridge Education – Use “TheSMB” to save some, be entered in a drawing for a second-year free, and support the podcast.

Marc Pro – Use “THESMB” to recover better.

Love Handle 2 LEAN

Todd just launched Love Handle 2 LEAN as his new online business.

Lovehandle to LEAN Method

Welcome back, my friend.  Why a fitness coach?

In December I launched my first online rehab offer.  I went one for 12 in bringing those people on as clients.

The one glaring need that kept coming up in all of these conversations.


I am passionate about the health and fitness aspect of life.

How do I incorporate the mental aspect into health?

The name Love Handle to LEAN Method or L2L, tell me about that.

The phrase came up over and over

It needs to resonate with potential clients

Low hanging fruit

Education –  how can we simplify



Let’s discuss the mentorship investment…$10,000 so someone could tell you how to start L2L?

I wish I would have done it 4 years ago.

I knew if I was going to continue on the path that I was on it would take way too long.

I was fed up and needed help.

It was scary to make the investment but which was worse the cost of the program or the cost of staying where I am.

What is on the other side of making the investment?

Watch Love handle 2 LEAN on Facebook

Contact Us:

Todd Sabol – @ToddSportsMed on IGTwitter – and FB

Jeremy Jackson

Related Podcasts:

$100k Side Job with Tim Neal

These people LOVE ATs and help the SMB pay the bills:

Frio Hydration – Superior Hydration products.

MioTech – meeting all of your sports medicine supply needs – use promo code “1FREECOURSE” to start for free

Donate and get some swag (like Patreon but for the school)

DragonflyMax – one-stop EMR

HOIST – no matter your reason for dehydration DRINK HOIST

MedBridge Education – Use “TheSMB” to save some, be entered in a drawing for a second-year free, and support the podcast.

Marc Pro – Use “THESMB” to recover better.

Full transcript of Love Handle to LEAN created by Otter.Ai

Todd Sabol  0:00

As you know my life like I like a lot of other trainers are. And I was always trying to find ways to push my body push my mind to the highest level of ability that I could because I was an athletic person per se, I should work pretty hard to get what I had. So, yeah, so, in December, actually launched an odd my first online rehab injury offer. And I had, you know, 12 – 14 people reach out and, you know, I was able to get have lengthy conversations with about 12 of those people. And I went one for 12 and bringing the two people on so I was feeling pretty down, and it wasn't. Yeah, I think I might have gone in with too high of expectations who my first time and I wasn't sure what to expect, but through those conversations. You know, When we're trying to connect with people and you know, for the athletic fans that are listening you always are trying to create that connection and learn more about the person because that's what really matters, but, you know, the skill never they are cool but if you can't make a claim for that person, you can't help them. So, whose conversations I was having that one glaring need that kept coming up was like yeah, like, you know, some sort of the guy's shoulder may have hurt, and you know he might have been struggling with that, his, his or her biggest concern wasn't that they were in physical pain it was, you know, my shoulder hurts so I hadn't been working out as much. I put on weight and I feel self-conscious around my wife and my husband, that that was the big conversation and the big thing that kept coming back to these conversations. And that was the first kind of light bulb that I had in my head and a really long time of, you know, is this, is this where I need to be kind of focusing more of my attention on, Because I've always had a passion around this area, but kind of it's your point in the athletic training world it's something that we tried to distance ourselves from, and rightly so because there's so much confusion around that but I feel like it's something that I've kind of repressed in myself for a long time because it's something that I do really, really enjoy that I am passionate about but, again, kind of going back to what I just said. It's a really fine line to walk, walk, just because of the confusion around athletic training personal training and, and those types of things. So that's kind of like the short, short story of how it all happened so quick, but it's something that I feel like there's a, there's a fire in me with this just because the one, the one thing that I never could figure out, and I really struggled with. When I was doing, whether it was in person rehab on my side business or online, rehab was trying to incorporate the mental aspect of personal development self-development because, like, I'm just, you know I'm a fanatic about it and I love it, but it's really hard to do that with, you know when you're, when you're talking to somebody about their, their shoulder pain or knee pain or their ankle pain and you try to throw in some way, oh you know these are some folks I really enjoy and these are some like little, you know habits you can try to implement your life that might make things a little bit easier, a little bit better, a little bit more efficient. It just never felt like it clicked, You know, and like, I've had that thought in my head the past few years is like. Not that I felt inauthentic because I didn't because I loved injury rehab I love sports medicine I always will. I was like, I feel like I can be given more, you know what I mean like a more complete package. So that's kind of the nitty-gritty that if that kind of maybe clears up a little bit of that.

jeremy Jackson 3:40

So again it's just something you're passionate about something that you kind of been doing an internal battle with how do I do this, and then as you're growing, you're seeing more of a need. And, you know, every, every time I listen to one of those business podcasts or something like that is always talking about the riches are in the niches and you know you got to find something that you're passionate about and then I always hate the saying if you find something you'll love you'll never work a day in your life, but the concept or the idea is, you know, if you find something you love, then even if you are working hard, it's something you, you enjoy. So, yes, faces me, yeah,

Todd Sabol  4:14

yeah, I will say too, like, just with the current climate that we're in with, you know COVID And, and the comorbidities that people can have and make, you know, the struggles with that worse like people getting in shape, not even to look good but to feel good to be healthier is such an important thing right now, because we're just not a healthy, healthy nation how the country so between that and just the impact that I feel that I can, I can make I think I feel like give you bigger, just because it's more of a, it's more of a holistic piece, it's not just movement. It's the whole thing, movement, nutrition, mindset, being healthier being happier, and being more fulfilled in everyday life.

jeremy Jackson 5:04

I love that the saying that movement is healing and I think you I don't know if you're the first person that I saw it but I've definitely seen it from you a lot and movement is healing and that it's truly is something that, like I live by it because I talked to people like oh yeah you know I'm trying to get back in shape but there might be something else starts hurting, Keep moving. Keep moving, don't just stop for six weeks because your back started hurting because it's the first time in six years you've done anything I could. Until I love the idea and did you. Again, you just move in with it. So, love handle to lean, where is the name, where did that come from and I think, the link is LGA in, like, it's an acronym so talking about that.

Todd Sabol  5:50

Yeah, so the main really came from those conversations I was having with a lot of people, zero you're always trying to kind of figure out what, where is that pain coming from like what are the things that they really want to change that. They're not happy with and you know the word love handles kept kept coming up, you know, the one was one phrase tire on my tummy that those types of things like those are kind of a really resonate and mean that some people struggle with, like, it's just kinda like what you said that the riches are in the niches like these things are really important that you know people hear that because if you don't use if you don't use the correct language it's not gonna resonate with anyone, so that's kind of that's kind of how I came up with it and just, I mean, you know, I have a pretty small frame too but I always tend to to kind of keep a little bit extra like around the same area and so I can definitely relate with that you know so didn't just come back to the conversations like there's so many people they're afraid to take their shirts off, you know, like the summers coming up it's supposed to be a really fun time of year and they're dreading it, you know, and, you know, being so like I said that the big one of those conversations was like being self conscious around, spouses, you know, whether, you know, husband, wife, whoever I was talking to it was like that's that's a really, that's a really tough thing if you don't feel comfortable enough to, you know, wanted to show off in front of your husband or wife like, that's, that's a tough place to be and. And with the conversations, we've had in the past, and you know that I've struggled with things and I've always, I haven't always been in great shape and I went through good times, bad times and you know I've definitely been there so all that stuff was easy for me to understand in there, and I found ways to be able to get through that and like that is what I want to be able to give to people in the private people.

jeremy Jackson 7:35

Alright so if you were to pull my neighbors, you would see that I am definitely not afraid, take my shirt off because, like, I'll take the trash out shirtless I'm always out back in the backyard shirtless, it just, I guess I've never grown up out of that. So in my house it's me and the boys are always running around shirtless and here I am 40 years old, so I don't know how I've never really struggled with taking my shirt off aspect, but, you know, it is what it is so, so the Lean part. So I saw that is an acronym. Where did that what it, what does that spell out what does that mean?

Todd Sabol  8:11

Yeah, so I'm still working through it a little bit to be, to be honest, because there's a couple of ways that I want to go with it but, the idea behind it is like the L is just low hanging fruit, and that this is kind of that kind of proprietary thing that just kind of gives a little bit more insight to the program so that was a little low hanging fruit so really honing in on training, nutrition, and accountability, those are the three things that people seem to have the most struggle with when they're doing weight loss or fat loss or any type of program. Those that seem to be the most confused or if they're trying to do it on their own, you know, they don't, they don't know what to eat, how much to eat or what things to look for training wise they don't know what workouts to they don't know if they should do a ton of cardio, which you shouldn't. You don't need to do that, but what workouts, whether it's bodyweight or hit or low-intensity cardio like that's just a huge confusion for people, especially if they don't have a background in sports or fitness So, and then accountability is probably the most important from the conversations I've had is, if you know people sometimes have trouble being accountable to themselves, because it's really easy to talk you know, at the end of a long day you said you're gonna work out and be tired like me, I'll do it tomorrow like. So people, you know, that sometimes they're not always the most accountable to themselves because we have so much going on. So having accountability to another person. I post up a few weeks ago about that, about the percentages of the increase in probability reach your goals. You know when you commit someone else have a plan financially to commit all those things. It's pretty substantial when you look that over time, so those are the kinds of things with the low-hanging fruit. The ease education and that is literally just really you know when. When can you come to the program, educating you on those things of how can we simplify those sort of things for you? And by, buy your time back, right, because the people that I'm really looking to, you know, to bring your family families that don't have the time to try to figure out a meal plan, nutrition plan training program and to have the stress of staying accountable. So educating them and simplifying, how to basically buy your time back to, to not have to worry about spending hours of the day trying to figure those things out because we've already had those conversations and done that for you. You just have to kind of execute it and stay committed and, you know, be quick to act, and you know if you have questions to ask them quickly too. It's, it's all about quickness not worry about making a mistake. Taking messy action, and if there's a mistake there we just clean that up real quick. So that's the AES audit, and that is really I mean that's the big key of figuring out where you're starting right now and then figure out how we can manipulate that again to supply the process and get you on the right path. And then, the end is the one that I'm still struggling with. So I don't have a great. I don't have a great word for that yet the phrase that keeps coming back to me is never-ending because the thing that I keep posting about my posts is, you know, the fad diets, and you know the BS, the mainstream diet culture of quick-fix 30 pounds 30 days, you know like that’s what everybody likes to hear because we want the quick result. But this, this, this program is yes to lose your first 10 to 15 pounds in 12 weeks or you know might may take a little longer for you but the goal is to build those habits to build those mindset shifts, and to build a positive relationship with food and a positive relationship with movement and training. So, whenever we do stop working together where it's sick, whether it's six months 12 months two years, whatever it is, you develop those things over time so you can keep that fat and that weight loss off that we, you know, Gadget, didn't we were where we got at the beginning, right, it's all about sustainability and that's what I really want to push because, I mean, I always talked I talked about with injury rehab too is if it sounds too good to be true. If you're being promised a quick fix, Like, you may get there, but you're probably not going to stay there but you haven't developed the habits over time that you need to stay there. So that's kind of where that acronym comes from I'm still working through it. I, the end, the never-ending thing I want to find a better bagel or maybe a little more catchy phrase for that but that's the idea behind that is the never-ending the sustainability too, to really be where you want to be 20 years from now or 30 years from now, right, because that was the other really big thing that people were talking about, nice, nice conversations where, you know, I have kids and I feel like I can't be them, be there for them or I have Greg. Greg is either on the way or here, and I can't do with them what I used to do with my kids like I can't roll around on the floor with them and play or I'm out of breath after taking a 10-minute walk or you know those types of things so

Unknown 13:14

when you think back, 30 years from now, were you doing the right things to give you sustained wars auto retry get a quick fix to the beach and go from there. So I think the stat is like people who lose weight with those kinds of quick, Quick Fix diets, you know, like 80 or 90%, not only gain all the weight back but gain more so that's, that's really what I'm trying to try to hit it because it just, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you don't keep it off, you know, and it doesn't matter if, if you feel good for three months but the next 3030 years you're just, you're in a bad spot so that's really what I'm going after.

jeremy Jackson 13:55

But your background profession or your background as a medical professional as an athletic trainer, how does that tie into or, you know or is this you're moving away from athletic training. So how does that work out?

Todd Sabol  14:10

Yeah, no I don't, I don't plan on, you know distancing myself from athletic training at all because the skill set that we bring can be so beneficial beneficial to the space I mean, obviously I'm not going to be prescribing you know shoulder impingement rehabs or anything with this but, you know somebody is struggling to move around, whether it's you know, aches or pains like I have the knowledge to be able to you know, at least give him some idea without being too specific and Galgo going outside of the scope of what I'm doing now, that it only makes sense to me you know it made you think about all the corrective exercise specials certificates and specializations that personal trainers can get like a lot, they're doing a lot of similar things I wanted the same things because, you know, we can't replicates for six years, or you no longer have school that we get with athletic training but I think that's such a big piece and like, even though it's there two different areas like I said, that's still the core of everything I'm doing, you know, developing that positive relationship with movement and how to incorporate that to be happy and healthy person like that my, my ethos hasn't changed, which which I feel really really good about, you know what I mean.

jeremy Jackson 15:31

One of the reasons that I continue to lift weights and continue to run is because I have a 10 Eight and six-year-old and then, you know, possibly a one-year-old if we get to adopt her. And I want to be able to throw the baseball or, you know, go play touch football or whatever it is with those kids and I don't want to miss out on those moments and I want to be around for their kids. And so I know if I don't take care of myself, then I'm gonna end up missing out on those things later on. So, definitely a good point in reminders. The need that long term sustainability. So, talking about The big shift you know you, you've been kind of going back and forth, back and forth. We've talked before about mental clarity, he talked about the accountability piece right here. And then in your stat, you mentioned financially committing. So, that's the big thing. You posted on your Instagram the $10,000 mentorship program that you invested in. So tell me a little bit about how you made that happen, but then ultimately what came out of that.

Unknown 16:39

Yeah, I mean that was, it was a long time coming, and I, I wish I would have done it, you know, four years ago, when I was when I started, you know the business, but I've had a couple close friends and acquaintances who went through the program. Actually, one of them is an athletic trainer, ironically, and I knew that. I just, I was, if I was going to continue on the same path but I was it was going to take way too long and when you think about. I mean, in the sports realm, or you're just sitting around. If anytime you want to get better every sport you hire a coach, anytime you want to get better at learning, you have a teacher or tutor. Anytime you have anything else like your plumber, you have some wrong like you hire a plumber and you don't try to do it on your own was the most no you're doing right but I was just at the point where I was like I was fed up, and I needed to help, and I knew the reputation, this, this coaching mentorship had and the success and the results that their students had, and it was. It was scary to make the investment, you know with any investment, it's scary, but I always wait for what when I was trying to make the decision for the final decision what I, what I kept playing was, which is worse the cost of the program or the cost of me staying where I'm at. And it always kept coming back to the cost of staying where I'm at, was way worse. You know what I mean, even, even if, like, and I kept trying to like tell myself as to even if I ended up, you know, going belly up, and the money didn't return to me at all, like, the lessons that I learned and I knew what they were like, that I, I knew they were teaching to an extent that I knew it would be worth it anyways. So, it was never really, it was a no brainer for me it was just more almost talking myself

Todd Sabol  18:45

out of not letting myself or letting myself take the risk, you know what I mean because any time whether it's financial, whether it's time whether it's commitment. We tend to you know talk ourselves out of things these is outside of our comfort zone but the thing that I kept thinking about was like what, what is on the other side of you know me making this investment and, you know, like I felt like I was gonna puke what what I ended up paying the money but, like, a day, it gave me a lot of clarity around why I'm doing what I'm doing and just the people that, you know, I'll be able to help by by doing this, you know what I mean like the return, I believe is going to be, you know, tenfold of that in terms of, not, not, not just like financially or monetary because, like, you know, we we all have to make money, but like, the impact is what I'm really really after, and I feel like if that was the that was the only way that I'd be able to do it because I'm just not that smart business wise, like, I just I am just I'm just not like I don't have an MBA or I didn't go to business school or, you know I don't have, you know, a faint family members who have done done business ventures or anything so I knew I needed help. And This ties right into fitness coaching to like coming to the realization that like, you know, maybe, maybe I do need help with, I can't do it on my own, and kind of

Unknown 20:15

worse serves me staying here worse. So that was kind of an internal battle that I had with myself but to kind of, kind of answer the second party question. Yeah, it started in February, and we're just over halfway through so still going on till about mid-May.

jeremy Jackson 20:33

Alright so if you're going to say there was like one key takeaway one light bulb moment in that course, what would that be,

Todd Sabol  20:46

I would say, and I have a quote written up on my board. People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures. Ally their fears, confirm their suspicions, and help them for rocks at their enemies. And again, that's not a business thing per se, but they constantly talk nearly constantly tell us that we've been hearing a little bit of feedback. But the counselor telling us that and everything I do I try to keep that in the back of my head. You know, how can I, it goes back to what I'm trying to is, how can I help encourage someone to make the change to make the jump to make the leap. And, you know, let them know that it's okay that you, you failed before and that you aren't where you want to be because we've all been there, right, whether it's been fitness business schooling, whatever. Like, just making that connection and that and I bet that ties into everything that I'm doing now that I wasn't doing before, like, you know, doing, doing, you know, trying to get people into the program like sales and marketing is not easy, but once you, once you kind of realize that you can truly help this person, that it's not selling, it's like, I want to, I want you in here so I can help you get on I mean, it doesn't feel like kind of like slimy like the used car salesman right if you truly know you can help that person by having them in the program. And that's, that's been the biggest mindset shift for me at least is just, you're not selling someone to sell them, you're, you're, you're selling them because you know that you can make an impact on their lives.

jeremy Jackson 22:44

Love handle 2 LEAN method from Todd's Sabol to program to help you create that accountability to grab that low-hanging fruit to achieve some of your goals. Todd, hope you're prepared for this because sitting behind you, there's a whole bookshelf of books. I know you're a big reader. So I want you to kind of reach-back there without looking grab one of those books, and tell me something that you learn from it. Yeah, kind of without looking, you're not to knock everything out, but I know you can kind of see you should be able to see in your screen so I'm saying without like handpicking just kind of reach-back there, whichever one you put your hand on, and then take that one.

Todd Sabol  23:21

I don't know, another one is actually Extreme Ownership wow that was too easy, and that's, I think another one. No, no, that's

jeremy Jackson 23:28

okay, go ahead.

Todd Sabol  23:30

Good, okay. It's actually hilarious so that worked out because in the core values. The core values for retired sportsmen for the for the company that I had that, you know, each client will sign on when they, when they're, when they're, when they come into the program. That's literally the first ones Extreme Ownership. And that ties in everything we do, everything we do. And, like I like I said the accountability piece of what, what, I'll be bringing to the table is, is, is, is pretty next level in terms of the access and the conversations we they whatever, but also always knowing at the end of the day, come back to it comes back to you, right, the effort you're putting in the attention to detail, and all that, right. Like, I will do whatever I can for you, you know if it's a phone call if it's a text if it's helping you out with your macros helping you out with, you know, a movement that you can't do at home, whatever it is I will help you, but at the end of the day, like it's 100% on you to use the tools that are at your disposal to get the result that you want. But the beauty of Extreme Ownership and I know this is big, a big book in the athletic training community that we always talk about on Twitter. The beauty of that is if you have 100% Extreme Ownership and you're 100% accountable for you, and I'm 100% accountable for me and what I'm providing you, it makes a seamless team users not just being thrown around there's accusations being thrown around, we're all doing the best we can for the greater good. And so that's why it's the number one core value for the company. It's hilarious. I was just out

Unknown 25:08

there I love

Todd Sabol  25:09

school kids borrowed to me. So, that is really the foundation for everything in a successful team, you know, I believe it's, I can't speak for the company or big companies or anything like that but I believe it all comes back to that so that's, that's funny that I was the one that I picked up.

jeremy Jackson 25:33

All right, so love handled to lean you already said the best way to get a hold of you on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter is Todd Sports Med, so it does leave us with a takeaway maybe even your elevator pitch for love handled to lean.

Todd Sabol  25:50

Yeah, I would just say the big The biggest takeaway, you know, if you're, if you're if you've seen this or you're thinking about this, what do you even if it's if it's me or not if it's somebody else I would my biggest thing is just to take the chance, take the risk on yourself like you owe it to yourself to invest the time, the money into making yourself happier healthier but if you're not there and you know you want to get there like you owe it to yourself to do that for you, for your family for your job, or whatever goals you want to have just to live a longer life and you know those are the things that, that are really important, you know, and so I would just encourage you to that, that'd be my one thing that it's elite with and, you know, the elevator pitch, currently is just you know, the program drops today at 7 pm I'm looking for. 10 busy professionals that are looking to lose fat gain energy back and keep, keep that weight off for life. So if you struggle with training, nutrition, and accountability in the past. And those are things that really kind of holding you back from reaching your goals. Reach out, we can have a conversation I'd love to talk to you.

jeremy Jackson 26:54

Alright, good. And then, what is this going to look like what is success going to look like for like on your end.

Todd Sabol  27:06

I would say that's a good question. I would say. Success for me in the short term for this would be. I kind of talked about buying time back earlier for the young people who have been coming into the program. I want to buy some of my time back to, again, I have not distanced myself from athletic training but as made me start to, you know, try to have a family, And, you know, my parents get older and my grandparents get older, I want to, you know, be there more for them. And so I don't know what looks like yet, but I really want this to be, you know a substantial piece of what I'm doing in my everyday life. And, and I would say that's probably good, I would say, a short term like I would love to get Emily out of work. Just, just so you know when we do family lunch, that's not even something that is, you know, on her brain and having to worry about.

jeremy Jackson 28:08

Can you go, that's a huge key for us Sarah staying home was a big piece and we did what it took to make it happen. So, congratulations on the Start Tim Neil was watching live on Facebook, he is here with me in Texas and he does something similar. He's an athletic trainer he works a lot of, like per diem events and he runs like a per diem athletic trainer company, but he also just opened up alike fitness facility. So he's in bringing the fitness and athletic trainer to him is a no-brainer. Again, this is Todd table if you want to check out the love handle to lean in type, if you're looking at him on, if you're following him on social media, then you've seen just the vulnerability that the honesty in his posts or if you listen to the previous podcast with Todd, just talking about his struggles, and it's never really about hey like give me like what I'm doing like he's, this is just Todd sharing his story in truly wanting to help other people, and it comes through with who he is with the way he interacts, he can't fake the authenticity that much. So reach out to Todd, check it out if you want if you're interested in doing something similar, then you can again hit him up and ask him about the mentorship program or some of the other steps that he's taken as well love handle to lean, this is sports medicine broadcast comm slash love handle, so for Jeremy for Todd for love handle to lean in the sports medicine broadcast Tim and whoever else is watching live, it didn't come in, thanks for watching live on the Facebook, check it out tonight I was actually in the middle of filling out the application on Todd's website just so I can kind of see in having an idea and it really is just hey, I want to get to know you, and then, then we'll see what happens from there so we'll come back on and, you know, a month or six months or whatever it is and see what Todd is with all of this. So, for Jeremy in the sports medicine broadcast and Todd, that is a wrap. Thanks. 

David Silverstein saved a life

David Silverstein has been an Athletic Trainer for 12 years and has yet to need his CPR skills. That all changed in an instant as his actions helped “Z” survive long enough for the EMS to arrive and take over.

David, you just recently saved a life.  Tell us the story.

  1. SCA leading cause of death in exercising athletes typically caused by underlying structural or electrical conditions. 
  2. 75% of deaths occur in football, basketball and soccer. Male and African Americans are at highest risk. Survival declines 10% each minute waiting for defibrillation. 
  3. Early defibrillator increases survival chances by 80%
  4. Eyes rolled back, brief seizure-like activity and agonal breathing was distracting and those were all the signs pointed out in the video.   
  5. Differentiated from EHS or sickle cell in that SCA is sudden without signs of struggling or exhaustion
  6. Any athlete who has collapsed and is unresponsive should be assumed to be in SCA until proven otherwise or another cause of the collapse clearly is identified.

What is your prior experience using CPR?

None other than teaching and getting certified.

I first took the class when I was in undergrad.

Tell us some more of your Athletic Trainer Story.

Graduated from MSU during the internship era. GA @ CCF

Got out of Athletic Training and came back to it after 5 years. Served mostly in high school settings but working at a DC office now while doing a lot of PRN coverage.

How did you process the situation afterward?

Didn’t want to be there

Replayed events in my head to see if I performed up to par

What are you going to change because of this event?


1E. Every school or organization that sponsors athletics should develop an EAP specifically for managing serious

and/or potentially life-threatening sport-related injuries (athletic EAP)

2E. The athletic EAP should be developed and coordinated with local EMS, school public safety officials, on-site

medical personnel or school medical staff, and school administrators

3E. Every school should distribute the athletic EAP to all athletic staff members

4E. The athletic EAP should be specific to each venue (including maps, directions, etc)

5E. On-site emergency equipment that may be needed in an emergency situation should be listed

6E. The athletic EAP should identify personnel and their responsibilities to carry out the plan of action with a

designated chain of command

7E. Appropriate contact information for EMS

8E. The athletic EAP should specify documentation actions that need to be taken after an emergency 

9E. The athletic EAP should be reviewed and rehearsed annually by all parties involved

10E. Health care professionals who will provide medical coverage during games, practices, or other events should be included

Call to action:

Drill EAPs more often


AT Cares

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Resources from David Silverstein:

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