Is the DAT the right choice for your advanced degree? Should you pursue your Ph.D. or maybe an Ed.D.?
Dr. Matthew Drescher, a PhD candidate, already earned his DAT from ISU and joins me to answer some of my questions. In the next two podcast we will discuss the Ph.D. and Ed.D. and compare them.
What is the DAT
The DAT is a post professional degree program. It's a clinical doctorate stands for Doctorate of Athletic Training.
Most of the programs that are currently across the country are focused on clinical education, advanced clinical education and clinical leadership, but I kind of looked at in a different light so I tend to look at it as a metaphysical idea
It's a mindset to meet the gap is a commitment to the profession to be the leader and push forward.
Promote advanced practice leadership
Promote us as a profession as healthcare providers
Helping lead the profession forward
We understand that's a hard thing to do, but we can do hard things and the DAT is a commitment to that mindset to continue doing what's right for the profession and moving it forward.
– Dr. Matthew Drescher
What would I expect out of my DAT education?
The beauty of the post professional degree, is that it can be marketed to the market. So, all of the programs, hit on the same central tenets, but they all do them in a different way.
When you're thinking about going into this level of education, it's really about aligning that with your values.
Part what I learned in the ISU DAT was really how to be a clinical leader, what it looks like to be that person, the person who does hard things, the person who asks the hard questions.
Promoting yourself as a lifelong learner, that's something that I value immensely. Some other programs focus on different aspects.
At ISU we focus a lot on manual therapy and advanced manual therapy skills, some programs focus on more of the leadership aspect. Or they focus on what we call practice-based research, but each program has a little bit of a nuance.
What you would expect from a DAT program is that mindset of thinking differently.
The DAT should help make changes at the system level. How do you think that that helps me get Athletic Trainers into the intermediate setting?
I think you make a really good point. I guess you could call it the clout, having that title of Dr. Jackson would bring.
But part of that mindset of the DAT is that it's not really about the degree to the outside world.
It's, an easier concept to understand that you're a doctor versus You're not a doctor but when you're with,
The concept is not necessarily the clout, but it's the skill and the knowledge to be able to make the changes to know the steps to how those changes have to be made. You can't just run in and say, put an athletic trainer here, please. It's knowing how to line up all of the blocks to work with you and that's what I mean more about a systems level change.
Because at that level, the systems are dynamic, and they're complex, so being able to know how to speak that language to align the blocks to prove that value and worth. That's something, those are skills that the DAT degree can give you.
On top of the confidence and credibility that the degree itself carries, I would argue that your experience carries a lot, but you are also going to have to explain what that means to someone who's not familiar with athletic training, whereas the degree on top of your experience and then on top of that, those skills are going to help you carry that effort.
I look at it more of like a medium to carry the skill versus a be all end all.
Check out the podcast or video for more questions and answers about the ISU DAT program.
Full transcript of Love Handle to LEAN created by Otter.Ai
Todd Sabol 0:00
As you know my life like I like a lot of other trainers are. And I was always trying to find ways to push my body push my mind to the highest level of ability that I could because I was an athletic person per se, I should work pretty hard to get what I had. So, yeah, so, in December, actually launched an odd my first online rehab injury offer. And I had, you know, 12 – 14 people reach out and, you know, I was able to get have lengthy conversations with about 12 of those people. And I went one for 12 and bringing the two people on so I was feeling pretty down, and it wasn't. Yeah, I think I might have gone in with too high of expectations who my first time and I wasn't sure what to expect, but through those conversations. You know, When we're trying to connect with people and you know, for the athletic fans that are listening you always are trying to create that connection and learn more about the person because that's what really matters, but, you know, the skill never they are cool but if you can't make a claim for that person, you can't help them. So, whose conversations I was having that one glaring need that kept coming up was like yeah, like, you know, some sort of the guy's shoulder may have hurt, and you know he might have been struggling with that, his, his or her biggest concern wasn't that they were in physical pain it was, you know, my shoulder hurts so I hadn't been working out as much. I put on weight and I feel self-conscious around my wife and my husband, that that was the big conversation and the big thing that kept coming back to these conversations. And that was the first kind of light bulb that I had in my head and a really long time of, you know, is this, is this where I need to be kind of focusing more of my attention on, Because I've always had a passion around this area, but kind of it's your point in the athletic training world it's something that we tried to distance ourselves from, and rightly so because there's so much confusion around that but I feel like it's something that I've kind of repressed in myself for a long time because it's something that I do really, really enjoy that I am passionate about but, again, kind of going back to what I just said. It's a really fine line to walk, walk, just because of the confusion around athletic training personal training and, and those types of things. So that's kind of like the short, short story of how it all happened so quick, but it's something that I feel like there's a, there's a fire in me with this just because the one, the one thing that I never could figure out, and I really struggled with. When I was doing, whether it was in person rehab on my side business or online, rehab was trying to incorporate the mental aspect of personal development self-development because, like, I'm just, you know I'm a fanatic about it and I love it, but it's really hard to do that with, you know when you're, when you're talking to somebody about their, their shoulder pain or knee pain or their ankle pain and you try to throw in some way, oh you know these are some folks I really enjoy and these are some like little, you know habits you can try to implement your life that might make things a little bit easier, a little bit better, a little bit more efficient. It just never felt like it clicked, You know, and like, I've had that thought in my head the past few years is like. Not that I felt inauthentic because I didn't because I loved injury rehab I love sports medicine I always will. I was like, I feel like I can be given more, you know what I mean like a more complete package. So that's kind of the nitty-gritty that if that kind of maybe clears up a little bit of that.
So again it's just something you're passionate about something that you kind of been doing an internal battle with how do I do this, and then as you're growing, you're seeing more of a need. And, you know, every, every time I listen to one of those business podcasts or something like that is always talking about the riches are in the niches and you know you got to find something that you're passionate about and then I always hate the saying if you find something you'll love you'll never work a day in your life, but the concept or the idea is, you know, if you find something you love, then even if you are working hard, it's something you, you enjoy. So, yes, faces me, yeah,
Todd Sabol 4:14
yeah, I will say too, like, just with the current climate that we're in with, you know COVID And, and the comorbidities that people can have and make, you know, the struggles with that worse like people getting in shape, not even to look good but to feel good to be healthier is such an important thing right now, because we're just not a healthy, healthy nation how the country so between that and just the impact that I feel that I can, I can make I think I feel like give you bigger, just because it's more of a, it's more of a holistic piece, it's not just movement. It's the whole thing, movement, nutrition, mindset, being healthier being happier, and being more fulfilled in everyday life.
I love that the saying that movement is healing and I think you I don't know if you're the first person that I saw it but I've definitely seen it from you a lot and movement is healing and that it's truly is something that, like I live by it because I talked to people like oh yeah you know I'm trying to get back in shape but there might be something else starts hurting, Keep moving. Keep moving, don't just stop for six weeks because your back started hurting because it's the first time in six years you've done anything I could. Until I love the idea and did you. Again, you just move in with it. So, love handle to lean, where is the name, where did that come from and I think, the link is LGA in, like, it's an acronym so talking about that.
Todd Sabol 5:50
Yeah, so the main really came from those conversations I was having with a lot of people, zero you're always trying to kind of figure out what, where is that pain coming from like what are the things that they really want to change that. They're not happy with and you know the word love handles kept kept coming up, you know, the one was one phrase tire on my tummy that those types of things like those are kind of a really resonate and mean that some people struggle with, like, it's just kinda like what you said that the riches are in the niches like these things are really important that you know people hear that because if you don't use if you don't use the correct language it's not gonna resonate with anyone, so that's kind of that's kind of how I came up with it and just, I mean, you know, I have a pretty small frame too but I always tend to to kind of keep a little bit extra like around the same area and so I can definitely relate with that you know so didn't just come back to the conversations like there's so many people they're afraid to take their shirts off, you know, like the summers coming up it's supposed to be a really fun time of year and they're dreading it, you know, and, you know, being so like I said that the big one of those conversations was like being self conscious around, spouses, you know, whether, you know, husband, wife, whoever I was talking to it was like that's that's a really, that's a really tough thing if you don't feel comfortable enough to, you know, wanted to show off in front of your husband or wife like, that's, that's a tough place to be and. And with the conversations, we've had in the past, and you know that I've struggled with things and I've always, I haven't always been in great shape and I went through good times, bad times and you know I've definitely been there so all that stuff was easy for me to understand in there, and I found ways to be able to get through that and like that is what I want to be able to give to people in the private people.
Alright so if you were to pull my neighbors, you would see that I am definitely not afraid, take my shirt off because, like, I'll take the trash out shirtless I'm always out back in the backyard shirtless, it just, I guess I've never grown up out of that. So in my house it's me and the boys are always running around shirtless and here I am 40 years old, so I don't know how I've never really struggled with taking my shirt off aspect, but, you know, it is what it is so, so the Lean part. So I saw that is an acronym. Where did that what it, what does that spell out what does that mean?
Todd Sabol 8:11
Yeah, so I'm still working through it a little bit to be, to be honest, because there's a couple of ways that I want to go with it but, the idea behind it is like the L is just low hanging fruit, and that this is kind of that kind of proprietary thing that just kind of gives a little bit more insight to the program so that was a little low hanging fruit so really honing in on training, nutrition, and accountability, those are the three things that people seem to have the most struggle with when they're doing weight loss or fat loss or any type of program. Those that seem to be the most confused or if they're trying to do it on their own, you know, they don't, they don't know what to eat, how much to eat or what things to look for training wise they don't know what workouts to they don't know if they should do a ton of cardio, which you shouldn't. You don't need to do that, but what workouts, whether it's bodyweight or hit or low-intensity cardio like that's just a huge confusion for people, especially if they don't have a background in sports or fitness So, and then accountability is probably the most important from the conversations I've had is, if you know people sometimes have trouble being accountable to themselves, because it's really easy to talk you know, at the end of a long day you said you're gonna work out and be tired like me, I'll do it tomorrow like. So people, you know, that sometimes they're not always the most accountable to themselves because we have so much going on. So having accountability to another person. I post up a few weeks ago about that, about the percentages of the increase in probability reach your goals. You know when you commit someone else have a plan financially to commit all those things. It's pretty substantial when you look that over time, so those are the kinds of things with the low-hanging fruit. The ease education and that is literally just really you know when. When can you come to the program, educating you on those things of how can we simplify those sort of things for you? And by, buy your time back, right, because the people that I'm really looking to, you know, to bring your family families that don't have the time to try to figure out a meal plan, nutrition plan training program and to have the stress of staying accountable. So educating them and simplifying, how to basically buy your time back to, to not have to worry about spending hours of the day trying to figure those things out because we've already had those conversations and done that for you. You just have to kind of execute it and stay committed and, you know, be quick to act, and you know if you have questions to ask them quickly too. It's, it's all about quickness not worry about making a mistake. Taking messy action, and if there's a mistake there we just clean that up real quick. So that's the AES audit, and that is really I mean that's the big key of figuring out where you're starting right now and then figure out how we can manipulate that again to supply the process and get you on the right path. And then, the end is the one that I'm still struggling with. So I don't have a great. I don't have a great word for that yet the phrase that keeps coming back to me is never-ending because the thing that I keep posting about my posts is, you know, the fad diets, and you know the BS, the mainstream diet culture of quick-fix 30 pounds 30 days, you know like that’s what everybody likes to hear because we want the quick result. But this, this, this program is yes to lose your first 10 to 15 pounds in 12 weeks or you know might may take a little longer for you but the goal is to build those habits to build those mindset shifts, and to build a positive relationship with food and a positive relationship with movement and training. So, whenever we do stop working together where it's sick, whether it's six months 12 months two years, whatever it is, you develop those things over time so you can keep that fat and that weight loss off that we, you know, Gadget, didn't we were where we got at the beginning, right, it's all about sustainability and that's what I really want to push because, I mean, I always talked I talked about with injury rehab too is if it sounds too good to be true. If you're being promised a quick fix, Like, you may get there, but you're probably not going to stay there but you haven't developed the habits over time that you need to stay there. So that's kind of where that acronym comes from I'm still working through it. I, the end, the never-ending thing I want to find a better bagel or maybe a little more catchy phrase for that but that's the idea behind that is the never-ending the sustainability too, to really be where you want to be 20 years from now or 30 years from now, right, because that was the other really big thing that people were talking about, nice, nice conversations where, you know, I have kids and I feel like I can't be them, be there for them or I have Greg. Greg is either on the way or here, and I can't do with them what I used to do with my kids like I can't roll around on the floor with them and play or I'm out of breath after taking a 10-minute walk or you know those types of things so
Unknown 13:14
when you think back, 30 years from now, were you doing the right things to give you sustained wars auto retry get a quick fix to the beach and go from there. So I think the stat is like people who lose weight with those kinds of quick, Quick Fix diets, you know, like 80 or 90%, not only gain all the weight back but gain more so that's, that's really what I'm trying to try to hit it because it just, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you don't keep it off, you know, and it doesn't matter if, if you feel good for three months but the next 3030 years you're just, you're in a bad spot so that's really what I'm going after.
But your background profession or your background as a medical professional as an athletic trainer, how does that tie into or, you know or is this you're moving away from athletic training. So how does that work out?
Todd Sabol 14:10
Yeah, no I don't, I don't plan on, you know distancing myself from athletic training at all because the skill set that we bring can be so beneficial beneficial to the space I mean, obviously I'm not going to be prescribing you know shoulder impingement rehabs or anything with this but, you know somebody is struggling to move around, whether it's you know, aches or pains like I have the knowledge to be able to you know, at least give him some idea without being too specific and Galgo going outside of the scope of what I'm doing now, that it only makes sense to me you know it made you think about all the corrective exercise specials certificates and specializations that personal trainers can get like a lot, they're doing a lot of similar things I wanted the same things because, you know, we can't replicates for six years, or you no longer have school that we get with athletic training but I think that's such a big piece and like, even though it's there two different areas like I said, that's still the core of everything I'm doing, you know, developing that positive relationship with movement and how to incorporate that to be happy and healthy person like that my, my ethos hasn't changed, which which I feel really really good about, you know what I mean.
One of the reasons that I continue to lift weights and continue to run is because I have a 10 Eight and six-year-old and then, you know, possibly a one-year-old if we get to adopt her. And I want to be able to throw the baseball or, you know, go play touch football or whatever it is with those kids and I don't want to miss out on those moments and I want to be around for their kids. And so I know if I don't take care of myself, then I'm gonna end up missing out on those things later on. So, definitely a good point in reminders. The need that long term sustainability. So, talking about The big shift you know you, you've been kind of going back and forth, back and forth. We've talked before about mental clarity, he talked about the accountability piece right here. And then in your stat, you mentioned financially committing. So, that's the big thing. You posted on your Instagram the $10,000 mentorship program that you invested in. So tell me a little bit about how you made that happen, but then ultimately what came out of that.
Unknown 16:39
Yeah, I mean that was, it was a long time coming, and I, I wish I would have done it, you know, four years ago, when I was when I started, you know the business, but I've had a couple close friends and acquaintances who went through the program. Actually, one of them is an athletic trainer, ironically, and I knew that. I just, I was, if I was going to continue on the same path but I was it was going to take way too long and when you think about. I mean, in the sports realm, or you're just sitting around. If anytime you want to get better every sport you hire a coach, anytime you want to get better at learning, you have a teacher or tutor. Anytime you have anything else like your plumber, you have some wrong like you hire a plumber and you don't try to do it on your own was the most no you're doing right but I was just at the point where I was like I was fed up, and I needed to help, and I knew the reputation, this, this coaching mentorship had and the success and the results that their students had, and it was. It was scary to make the investment, you know with any investment, it's scary, but I always wait for what when I was trying to make the decision for the final decision what I, what I kept playing was, which is worse the cost of the program or the cost of me staying where I'm at. And it always kept coming back to the cost of staying where I'm at, was way worse. You know what I mean, even, even if, like, and I kept trying to like tell myself as to even if I ended up, you know, going belly up, and the money didn't return to me at all, like, the lessons that I learned and I knew what they were like, that I, I knew they were teaching to an extent that I knew it would be worth it anyways. So, it was never really, it was a no brainer for me it was just more almost talking myself
Todd Sabol 18:45
out of not letting myself or letting myself take the risk, you know what I mean because any time whether it's financial, whether it's time whether it's commitment. We tend to you know talk ourselves out of things these is outside of our comfort zone but the thing that I kept thinking about was like what, what is on the other side of you know me making this investment and, you know, like I felt like I was gonna puke what what I ended up paying the money but, like, a day, it gave me a lot of clarity around why I'm doing what I'm doing and just the people that, you know, I'll be able to help by by doing this, you know what I mean like the return, I believe is going to be, you know, tenfold of that in terms of, not, not, not just like financially or monetary because, like, you know, we we all have to make money, but like, the impact is what I'm really really after, and I feel like if that was the that was the only way that I'd be able to do it because I'm just not that smart business wise, like, I just I am just I'm just not like I don't have an MBA or I didn't go to business school or, you know I don't have, you know, a faint family members who have done done business ventures or anything so I knew I needed help. And This ties right into fitness coaching to like coming to the realization that like, you know, maybe, maybe I do need help with, I can't do it on my own, and kind of
Unknown 20:15
worse serves me staying here worse. So that was kind of an internal battle that I had with myself but to kind of, kind of answer the second party question. Yeah, it started in February, and we're just over halfway through so still going on till about mid-May.
Alright so if you're going to say there was like one key takeaway one light bulb moment in that course, what would that be,
Todd Sabol 20:46
I would say, and I have a quote written up on my board. People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures. Ally their fears, confirm their suspicions, and help them for rocks at their enemies. And again, that's not a business thing per se, but they constantly talk nearly constantly tell us that we've been hearing a little bit of feedback. But the counselor telling us that and everything I do I try to keep that in the back of my head. You know, how can I, it goes back to what I'm trying to is, how can I help encourage someone to make the change to make the jump to make the leap. And, you know, let them know that it's okay that you, you failed before and that you aren't where you want to be because we've all been there, right, whether it's been fitness business schooling, whatever. Like, just making that connection and that and I bet that ties into everything that I'm doing now that I wasn't doing before, like, you know, doing, doing, you know, trying to get people into the program like sales and marketing is not easy, but once you, once you kind of realize that you can truly help this person, that it's not selling, it's like, I want to, I want you in here so I can help you get on I mean, it doesn't feel like kind of like slimy like the used car salesman right if you truly know you can help that person by having them in the program. And that's, that's been the biggest mindset shift for me at least is just, you're not selling someone to sell them, you're, you're, you're selling them because you know that you can make an impact on their lives.
Love handle 2 LEAN method from Todd's Sabol to program to help you create that accountability to grab that low-hanging fruit to achieve some of your goals. Todd, hope you're prepared for this because sitting behind you, there's a whole bookshelf of books. I know you're a big reader. So I want you to kind of reach-back there without looking grab one of those books, and tell me something that you learn from it. Yeah, kind of without looking, you're not to knock everything out, but I know you can kind of see you should be able to see in your screen so I'm saying without like handpicking just kind of reach-back there, whichever one you put your hand on, and then take that one.
Todd Sabol 23:21
I don't know, another one is actually Extreme Ownership wow that was too easy, and that's, I think another one. No, no, that's
Good, okay. It's actually hilarious so that worked out because in the core values. The core values for retired sportsmen for the for the company that I had that, you know, each client will sign on when they, when they're, when they're, when they come into the program. That's literally the first ones Extreme Ownership. And that ties in everything we do, everything we do. And, like I like I said the accountability piece of what, what, I'll be bringing to the table is, is, is, is pretty next level in terms of the access and the conversations we they whatever, but also always knowing at the end of the day, come back to it comes back to you, right, the effort you're putting in the attention to detail, and all that, right. Like, I will do whatever I can for you, you know if it's a phone call if it's a text if it's helping you out with your macros helping you out with, you know, a movement that you can't do at home, whatever it is I will help you, but at the end of the day, like it's 100% on you to use the tools that are at your disposal to get the result that you want. But the beauty of Extreme Ownership and I know this is big, a big book in the athletic training community that we always talk about on Twitter. The beauty of that is if you have 100% Extreme Ownership and you're 100% accountable for you, and I'm 100% accountable for me and what I'm providing you, it makes a seamless team users not just being thrown around there's accusations being thrown around, we're all doing the best we can for the greater good. And so that's why it's the number one core value for the company. It's hilarious. I was just out
Unknown 25:08
there I love
Todd Sabol 25:09
school kids borrowed to me. So, that is really the foundation for everything in a successful team, you know, I believe it's, I can't speak for the company or big companies or anything like that but I believe it all comes back to that so that's, that's funny that I was the one that I picked up.
All right, so love handled to lean you already said the best way to get a hold of you on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter is Todd Sports Med, so it does leave us with a takeaway maybe even your elevator pitch for love handled to lean.
Todd Sabol 25:50
Yeah, I would just say the big The biggest takeaway, you know, if you're, if you're if you've seen this or you're thinking about this, what do you even if it's if it's me or not if it's somebody else I would my biggest thing is just to take the chance, take the risk on yourself like you owe it to yourself to invest the time, the money into making yourself happier healthier but if you're not there and you know you want to get there like you owe it to yourself to do that for you, for your family for your job, or whatever goals you want to have just to live a longer life and you know those are the things that, that are really important, you know, and so I would just encourage you to that, that'd be my one thing that it's elite with and, you know, the elevator pitch, currently is just you know, the program drops today at 7 pm I'm looking for. 10 busy professionals that are looking to lose fat gain energy back and keep, keep that weight off for life. So if you struggle with training, nutrition, and accountability in the past. And those are things that really kind of holding you back from reaching your goals. Reach out, we can have a conversation I'd love to talk to you.
Alright, good. And then, what is this going to look like what is success going to look like for like on your end.
Todd Sabol 27:06
I would say that's a good question. I would say. Success for me in the short term for this would be. I kind of talked about buying time back earlier for the young people who have been coming into the program. I want to buy some of my time back to, again, I have not distanced myself from athletic training but as made me start to, you know, try to have a family, And, you know, my parents get older and my grandparents get older, I want to, you know, be there more for them. And so I don't know what looks like yet, but I really want this to be, you know a substantial piece of what I'm doing in my everyday life. And, and I would say that's probably good, I would say, a short term like I would love to get Emily out of work. Just, just so you know when we do family lunch, that's not even something that is, you know, on her brain and having to worry about.
Can you go, that's a huge key for us Sarah staying home was a big piece and we did what it took to make it happen. So, congratulations on the Start Tim Neil was watching live on Facebook, he is here with me in Texas and he does something similar. He's an athletic trainer he works a lot of, like per diem events and he runs like a per diem athletic trainer company, but he also just opened up alike fitness facility. So he's in bringing the fitness and athletic trainer to him is a no-brainer. Again, this is Todd table if you want to check out the love handle to lean in type, if you're looking at him on, if you're following him on social media, then you've seen just the vulnerability that the honesty in his posts or if you listen to the previous podcast with Todd, just talking about his struggles, and it's never really about hey like give me like what I'm doing like he's, this is just Todd sharing his story in truly wanting to help other people, and it comes through with who he is with the way he interacts, he can't fake the authenticity that much. So reach out to Todd, check it out if you want if you're interested in doing something similar, then you can again hit him up and ask him about the mentorship program or some of the other steps that he's taken as well love handle to lean, this is sports medicine broadcast comm slash love handle, so for Jeremy for Todd for love handle to lean in the sports medicine broadcast Tim and whoever else is watching live, it didn't come in, thanks for watching live on the Facebook, check it out tonight I was actually in the middle of filling out the application on Todd's website just so I can kind of see in having an idea and it really is just hey, I want to get to know you, and then, then we'll see what happens from there so we'll come back on and, you know, a month or six months or whatever it is and see what Todd is with all of this. So, for Jeremy in the sports medicine broadcast and Todd, that is a wrap. Thanks.
David Silverstein has been an Athletic Trainer for 12 years and has yet to need his CPR skills. That all changed in an instant as his actions helped “Z” survive long enough for the EMS to arrive and take over.
David, you just recently saved a life. Tell us the story.
SCA leading cause of death in exercising athletes typically caused by underlying structural or electrical conditions.
75% of deaths occur in football, basketball and soccer. Male and African Americans are at highest risk. Survival declines 10% each minute waiting for defibrillation.
Early defibrillator increases survival chances by 80%
Eyes rolled back, brief seizure-like activity and agonal breathing was distracting and those were all the signs pointed out in the video.
Differentiated from EHS or sickle cell in that SCA is sudden without signs of struggling or exhaustion
Any athlete who has collapsed and is unresponsive should be assumed to be in SCA until proven otherwise or another cause of the collapse clearly is identified.
What is your prior experience using CPR?
None other than teaching and getting certified.
I first took the class when I was in undergrad.
Tell us some more of your Athletic Trainer Story.
Graduated from MSU during the internship era. GA @ CCF
Got out of Athletic Training and came back to it after 5 years. Served mostly in high school settings but working at a DC office now while doing a lot of PRN coverage.
How did you process the situation afterward?
Didn’t want to be there
Replayed events in my head to see if I performed up to par
What are you going to change because of this event?
EAPs
1E. Every school or organization that sponsors athletics should develop an EAP specifically for managing serious
110.12. Scope of Practice. (New Section adopted effective October 1, 2016, 41 TexReg 4435)
(a) A licensed athletic trainer prevents, recognizes, assesses, manages, treats, disposes of, and reconditions athletic injuries and illnesses under the direction of a physician licensed in this state or another qualified, licensed health professional who is authorized to refer for health care services within the scope of the person's license.
(b) The activities listed in subsection (c)(1)-(7) may be performed in any setting authorized by a licensed physician and may include, but not be limited to, an educational institution, professional or amateur athletic organization, an athletic facility, or a health care facility.
(c) Services provided by a licensed athletic trainer may include, but are not limited to:
(1) planning and implementing a comprehensive athletic injury and illness prevention program;
(2) conducting an initial assessment of an athlete's injury or illness and formulating an impression of the injury or illness in order to provide emergency or continued care and referral to a physician for definitive diagnosis and treatment, if appropriate;
(3) administering first aid and emergency care for acute athletic injuries and illnesses;
(4) coordinating, planning, and implementing a comprehensive rehabilitation program for athletic injuries;
(5) coordinating, planning, and supervising all administrative components of an athletic training or sports medicine program;
(6) providing health care information and counseling athletes; and
(7) conducting research and providing instruction on subject matter related to athletic training or sports medicine.
(d) A licensee shall not provide health care services which are not within the definition of “athletic training” in the Act except in accordance with state and federal laws and rules applicable to the provided services including but not limited to, Occupations Code, Chapter 157, relating to a physician's delegated authority; other licensure laws; and laws relating to the possession and distribution of controlled substances.
***this is a catch all***
A skill is in the standing orders but not in the state practice act. What could go wrong?
Example joint relocation –
Rectal Temp – In Kentucky it is outside the state practice act. Even though it is the gold standard, we are not currently allowed to do it.
***Local Policy → State practice act → Standing orders → position statement
People can sue for anything.
Taking the most conservative path defends your actions but does not make you bulletproof.
Liability – does it ever fall on the physician signing off on standing orders?
If they act outside of their scope of practice, then possibly.
But if you are doing your due diligence then it should not be needed
If you need an answer then get it in writing to CYA
A relationship with the signing physician is important so you can continually educate them on what you can and can not do.
It allows them to update the orders as needed.
THERE IS NO NEGATIVE TO DEVELOPING RELATIONSHIPS WITH YOUR PHYSICIAN!!!
Crossing state lines… as long as I’m with my team I’m good right???
Well, it depends…practice act, licensure rules, situation.
Licensure Clarity Act – a key part was for liability insurance to cover you.
Deaf Athletes speak a different language, they are not disabled. They maybe Hard of Hearing but not any less capable. We have to learn how to provide healthcare for them the same as the hearing athletes.
Jennifer Warren learned signed language as a kid to communicate with one of her teammates and has continued learning and using the skills through her career.
Josh Woodall and John Ciecko have first hand experience working with deaf and hard-of-hearing athletes and share some ways we can provide more equitable care.
Jennifer, what is the best tip you have for working with hard of hearing or deaf athletes?
I would suggest that the hearing community speak naturally to those who are deaf or hard of hearing. Many can read lips, but when we accentuate our words, it distorts our mouths, which can make it more difficult to read lips.
Second tip, most people who are deaf and hard of hearing appreciate any sign language you may know. Spelling out words or signing slowly is welcomed and appreciated.
John: Communicate eye to eye, never tell the interpreter “tell them this…”, people of various abilities should never be excluded from sports.
Only 30% of the English language can be read on lips, and that’s with perfect lighting and a couple of strong cups of coffee. Helmets, low hats, or any kind of obstruction to see someone's face and mouth hinders this ability to catch what’s being said on the lips. This is why it’s so important for Athletic trainers to learn the basics of ASL.
Josh, give us an example of how you have used this or other tips from Jennifer?
The first week in Bryan ISD I had an athlete with a broken radius/ulna so had to learn real quick how to communicate with an interpreter.
Jennifer, what should we know about working with deaf and hard of hearing athletes?
Not all disabilities are cognitive disabilities. In fact, the deaf community does not see hearing loss as a disability. The deaf and hard of hearing community prefer to be seen as a community that uses a different mode of communication, rather than a group with a disability.
American Sign Language is considered a foreign language, which is simply a different mode of communication. The need to use sign language is comparable to the need to use Spanish when a student’s primary language is Spanish. This means that deaf or hard of hearing students are very capable or able to participate in athletics and other extracurricular activities.
Also, the words ‘deaf or hard of hearing’ can seem like a harsh way to describe a people group, but it is actually what is accepted and preferred by the deaf community.
And, Deaf and hard of hearing students may not hear the starter’s gun or whistles blowing. Adjustments may need to be made to allow for access to the audible elements of the sport.
Discuss some of the hearing devices and how we can protect those for participation.
Most students self-care for their devices by the time they make it to the secondary sports level. But, AT’s (Athletic Trainer/Assistive Technology) may find it helpful to know how to support these athletes:
FM systems – wireless assistive hearing devices that enhance the use of hearing aids. The coach or AT may wear a mic that is bluetoothed to the student’s hearing aid or cochlear implant. This allows the student to hear direct voice from the coach or AT.
Hearing aids -small device that fits on or in the hear to amplify sound
Cochlear implants – small device that consists of an external portion that sits behind the ear and a second portion that is surgically placed under the skin. The device has several parts that help reproduce the effects of sound.
It may be helpful for the AT to offer a secure place to store the devices.
John: actual sound or noise that comes through the auditory devices can vary from what you and I hear as hearing individuals, which is why it’s not always enough for effective communication especially in a loud setting such as an athletic field – to keep in mind for ATs
What is something about this population that is probably misunderstood?
Language (foreign language)
Disability vs Mode of Communication-little to no modifications to be able to participate in sports
Deaf Culture-
John: Actual athletic ability is affected or that someone who is deaf or hard of hearing “don’t understand”
Accommodations needed
Section 504 and the ADA require that “reasonable accommodations” must be provided for an individual who can establish that he has a “disability” and that he is “otherwise qualified” to participate in the sport or activity in question. An accommodation can be an interpreter, lights or whatever is dictated by the student’s 504 plan.
Talking slower or louder does not help! However, facing the athlete and speaking directly to them does.
Deaf individuals also rely on facial expressions (the picture of me proposing to Jenny with my eyebrows raised indicates a question!)
Have empathy!!!
What are some “PC” or non-PC things to say or talk about regarding our hearing-impaired athletes?
Auditory Impairment or Hearing Impaired is now replaced with Deaf and Hard of Hearing.
Watching people have a conversation in sign language is the same as eavesdropping a verbal conversation.
Josh-example of working with interpreters (interpreters translate what is being said exactly the way it is said).
Signs we want you to know
Help Thanks Yes No Pain Water Name
Podcasts or Youtube channels you like for learning more?
Lifeprint.com for learning sign and about deaf culture and history
Signingonline.com – For full lessons (fully online) based on a two-year curriculum. Used by high schools, colleges, and universities for their 2-year world language credits. Also used to obtain CEs (WHICH I'M PUSHING THE BOC TO ADOPT)
Mike and Kathy exemplify the “AT in the Capitalist Economy.” Share in the discussion and consider if being an AT business owner is right for you.
Mike, what does “Capitalist Economy AT” mean to you?
What can an AT do and what is the value of our skillset?
Will people pay you for your services?
We are bridging the gap and speaking directly to the public.
Live the American dream
This is all about advocacy for me.
17 years ago I started my business D&D Sports medicine.
I am worth being paid for the services I am providing.
Part of our COPA committee is developing resources for the capitalist AT.
Kathy as a business owner where do you see us going?
We have become so diverse.
Pandemic has caused a lot of ATs to try running their own business.
Helping with reimbursement even though “cash is King”
Reimbursement opens the doors wider.
When the poop hit the fan and sports stopped the earth shook.
I made the decision 7 years ago to go out on my own.
I try to look at my business as telling the athletes how they can get better.
How can we do this to positively impact the profession?
This entrepreneur road is a great way to keep good ATS here.
Kathy – I have been a mentor each time I switched jobs out of a sense of duty.
I constantly get questions about how they can follow my path.
“First guy through the fence always gets a little bloody…I was that first guy” – Mike Stella
Knowing your “why” is crucial.
When I am faced with making a business decision I go back to my core values and see if it fits.
State practice ascites were written 20-30 years ago and when ATs were only in sports settings.
We need to update them to include a lot of the new settings.
READ your state practice act and have a good understanding of it.
Standing Orders: keep or trash them and why?
Kathy – What we are seeing is a result of a profession that has always worked under the supervision of a physician.
In the medical community, there are a lot of providers working under a physician.
Mike – Having the medical team in place is important.
Working under a physician puts the thumb on us and creates an automatic glass ceiling.
I was told, “You can not start a business because you can not hire my boss.”
The doctors I worked with decided they wanted a piece of the pie.
Now we have to jump through hoops that a massage therapist does not with one year of training.
“If we want a different solution or answer then we have to ask different questions.”
Access to insurance billing, does it hurt or help, and why?
CMS recognition helps as a sign of credibility
Do you lose some patients who want to bill insurance?
As it stands right now ATs are an expense item on the budget where as PT and Chiro generate revenue
Hypothetical: You are starting an AT-based/AT-oriented business next year what is it?
Product manufacture
Education business
But start with what problem are you trying to solve.
Consulting business because of where I am in my career.
From Innovate At Facebook Group:
Carrie Meyer – Does ATs engaging in capitalism increase health disparities – if the focus is on profit?
You will have some ATs in it for the profit and become revenue generators but most ATs are in it for the patient.
YOU CAN DO BOTH – create revenue and have great patient outcomes.
Ethics are Ethics palin and simple.
You can treat kids for only the reimbursement amount if you choose, but revenue keeps the lights on.
Kendall Selsky – What is happening in AT that should make prospective students consider AT as a career?
20 years ago I gave a business of AT presentation to 10 or 20 people at most across the country.
We are passing legislation
We WILL get California liscensed
Adam Halpern – What risk does AT as a profession face with athletic trainers entering the private market and infringing on other disciplines’ domains?
David Gallegos
Capitalism naturally balances a supply and demand imbalance in free markets so what is predicted of the profession was heavy in this model? Too much supply? Too much demand?
If you want to hire an AT but can not since they are in other settings then institutions will need to pay more to get one and keep them.
AT Moms have a lot to deal with. Being mom at home and “mom” at work, breastfeeding in a football locker room at halftime…I mean come on.
Cari Wood, Valerie Moody, and Kelly Salter join share some of their stories to encourage and lift you up as an AT Mom.
Val, what is your family makeup?
University of Montana Director of our program
AT Journey Colorado, Nebraska, Colorado, Florida back to Nebraska
Met husband in high school but actually met when she was back in Nebraska
Cari?
22 year old and 19 year old
Married 23 years
Kelly?
Born and raised in Michigan
Husband was a coach at her first job
23 years this summer
21 and 20 year old sons
Tell some stories of raising kids as an AT mom?
Kelly – we now sleep with a phone on for our kids…but it can not be me as I get messages from former kids at all hours.
I was able to provide AT care to my kids in little league.
As the only AT at my school, I have to care for my kids. It takes practice and objectivity.
Cari – former athlete called her after a varsity football game and they had been having fun.
I love they feel safe to call me
A friend fell off the golf cart and broke her 5th metatarsal but Cari made her play through it.
It is hard to evaluate your own kid.
My son was a wrestler but my contract did not cover the road trips. So I had to sit in the stands and sit and watch, but I can never really turn that off.
Val – when my kids are playing I have the other AT doing the evaluation. It gives me a layer of separation.
“Will there ever be a game where I am just mom, not the AT?”
What are some of the best moments?
Cari – raising the kids in the high school and having them be included with the teams. Allowing the high school kids to guide and instruct them.
Realizing I had to lay down the law with the boys trying to date my daughter.
Kelly – getting to see role models and how the teams can be like family.
Now my boys are returning the mentor favors.
Keeping my kids involved in what I do and allowing them to be pediatric patients and part of my regular routine
How do you handle the dating scene?
It was great for me but tough for the kids. I always knew everything.
It is a double-edged sword. There was much more benefit than difficulty.
Being relationship-driven has always been important to me so it caused some issues as I wanted to be friends with others.
Am I an imposter?
Val – It is easy for us to fall into that trap with social media.
I try to surround myself with good role models that I can reach out to.
I intentionally connected with another faculty member who is in a similar situation.
Cari – I missed a lot of competitions because I had to work, my husband did a lot of the nighttime routines.
Kelly – It is hard to be vulnerable, but it is so important to have a real conversation with someone you trust instead of just venting on social media.
Once we acknowledge the feeling we give them less power.
Being understanding of the schedule and requirements is really important to help and support the feeling of adequacy.
Help with child care understanding daycare requirements.
Val – bring coffee or chocolate
What are some of the struggles of being an AT Mom?
Breastfeeding can be tough
Have a handheld pump as a backup
Talk to your admin and say I need a space to do this.
Having a pretty rigid schedule helps as well even though it is really tough.
Planning ahead and making sure they had backups for the backups…diaper blowouts can derail your lesson.
I allowed my students to help and that was crucial.
People want to help you, let them.
I feel many women have to choose to be an AT or a mom, speak to that thought.
Kelly – I knew I wanted to be an AT before I knew I wanted to be a mom. I was told several times that if I wanted to be a mom I would need my teaching certificate so I had something to fall back on.
“ YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CHOOSE!!!”
You can make it work if you are both flexible and understanding.
Cari – dropped down to 20 hours per week to raise her kids
Val – not being afraid to ask
In AT Dads Larry Cooper shared Pizza Fridays as a way to be involved with the family. What routines or traditions have you used to stay involved with family life?
Ball boys and cheer escorts.
Kids went on some field trips with the team
Family dinners with coaches kids
Meals after games with coaches family
Who has been a mentor for you as an AT MOM?
Cari – I did not know anyone who was an AT mom, but I had friends who were in similar situations.
My parents were involved in the community and were busy but made it work.
Val – Shannon Courtney was the Head AT and program director while raising her young children.
Mickey Cuppett demonstrated how she was raising her family while being successful as an AT
My Mom as well did a great job.
Kelly – a coworker, Cindy, who was an AT and new mom.
Friends in similar situations in similar situations.
As a single mom AT you have to make a lot of sacrifices. Dr. Erin Hassler has gathered a few friends to share their stories.
Dr. Hassler, start us off with your story of getting into AT.
Went to school in Atlanta and always playing some sort of sport.
When I got to college I put the two together.
The 1996 Atlanta Olympics
Currently a teacher
Own SportzFactory
Own a non-profit
Work with Olympic Track and field
Teach adjunct online
Paula –
20 years out of college and 28 years in AT world
I started as an aide at 13 years old
I hated PE and tried to find my way out of it.
As a cheerleader, I jumped down the stairs and had to visit
First 5 years I was at a private school and then after school stuff
After that I became the sports performance coordinator.
I loved being part of the team and celebrating and getting better.
It was neat as a high school student to understand the psychological pressures
Chakaia –
Athlete with a lot injuries
My high school AT taught me a lot
Tennessee state for undergrad
Fell in love, got engaged, had a baby, we split and went our separate ways
I knew it was time for me to complete my schooling.
Te Shondra –
Born and raised in Florida and I was into sports.
A close family friend was the AT and she became my ride to and from school.
I was active but always found a way to help in with AT.
Went to school in South Carolina
Was married for about 7 years and moved back to Florida.
About year 7 or 8 we were pregnant and about that time he bailed
I did not make the adjustment until my daughter was at an age where she needed more hands-on for competitive practices.
When did the kid(s) come into the picture?
Tell me about your Tribe:
Co-workers that all started at the same time and were in similar situations.
These are the emergency contacts for my daughter
Now I have my “mommy squad” that I have met through my daughter.
Being willing to pick up and drop off your friend’s kids and it is reciprocal.
You need someone to celebrate and sorrow with.
Dr. Hassler – I do not call myself a single mom
I do not label myself as a single mom so that it does not look like I am missing a piece.
“You do not need to try to make up for someone else”
K – I am a thinker and a planner. I will manage my emotions, but sometimes that is at the end or the process.
I have to let someone else help me
Advice for K
Let your story show your passion and desire
Build your network now
Reach out to everyone you know.
Know the presence the ATs have in the area.
Really understand the expectations that will be placed on you.
Build camaraderie and trust your co-workers
Making a strong connection with the parents and letting them know “I am here for your kid”
Moving to the DAT/PHD
Dr. Abner – I was praying and had a vision and saw that I could get into the collegiate and instructional side then I could still be in the profession. I could help shape the future.
I knew I wanted to finish in 2 years so I did, while holding down my full-time job.
I left my high school while I was in my final year and finished up the DAT.
A friend called and offered the online teaching job.
Erin – My son helped me with my homework.
I would get the books from amazon so we always had books for him to get work done.
Lots of prayer
What has been the best part of being an AT Mom?
Giving my kids different exposures to the different populations I have been around.
Words of encouragement to other Single Mom ATs:
K – you never know what you can do until you are cornered
Do not put energy into things you can not control
Erin – AT is a lifestyle
Use the skills you use as an AT in the rest of your life.
Make the adjustment for the people that are most important to you.
Te Shondra
Self-care is not selfish – take the step back and take care of yourself
Founder of the Brookbush Institute, Dr. Brent Brookbush joins Tanya Watson to discuss some tips for maximizing online learning. AS we are hot on the heels of NATA going virtual again, we hope to help make lemonade.
Women in Athletic Training acknowledges women and men are not the same; however, that does not mean one is less than the other. Come celebrate with this awesome group as they are growing healthy relationships to grow our profession.
What’s new with WAT?
Since the last time we were on the SMB a ton has happened – specifically in the area of intentionality and forward direction.
We launched our re-brand of WAT 2.0 on 1/1/2020 and that for us signified a HUGE shift both in who we were and where we were going. We started the process in September of 2019 and used the last 4 months of 2019 really collaborating and digging deep into who we (the revitalized WAT board) wanted to be and where we wanted to take WAT.
That leads us to the creation of a formal mission, vision, and our credo that WAT is more than AVERAGE (insert visuals here) standing for authenticity, virtue, empowerment, respect, advocacy, growth, and elevATion.
We moved what was a place for all women AT to just come and ‘be’ to a true resource. A safe space for the women in this profession to empower one another.
It was through this re-launch that we saw a huge shift in the way our membership interacted with the group – in a hugely positive way. We also were sure to come into the process using the evidence-based models and surveys out then 7800 members. This year when we started 2021 we did the same thing to evaluate our model.
We are super proud that we just hit 9000 members, have 9 board members, we were the 1st group to offer a virtual interview of the then-candidates for NATA presidency, have hosted multiple call-in sessions for professional development around covid, interviews with NATA LGBTQ, EDAC, and more.
What are y’all working on now?
At the end of each year, we put out a survey for our members to complete for the Women in AT board to review and re-assess the needs of what our members are wanting from us. We all completed passion roadmaps which is a resource that we utilize from Passion Planner (Megan loves Passion Planner) that allows us to each individually brainstorm the goals that we foresee for WAT over a time period of 3 months, 1 year, 3 years, and a lifetime.
We work together to review the survey answers to plan and create a quarterly outline for Women in AT to help us take small steps to reaching our larger goals for WAT while also catering to the needs that our members requested of us.
This past year the survey revealed that the top two needs that the members would like for us to provide are networking opportunities and educational content. This is something we are working hard to provide for our members.
This month as NATM’s theme is AT’s are Healthcare, we want to shed more light on the emerging settings of athletic training. This month will include some roundtable discussions from multiple settings, some social opportunities, and an interview with a professor who teaches negotiation tactics. We are all very passionate about athletic training and the future for WAT, and are excited to see how it all evolves.
What are two key issues y’all are working to improve for women in athletic training?
Showing up for each other in an authentic, empowering way. For too long women in this profession (and in general) are forced into competitive environments that pit one against another. We aim to change that. We should be building each other up, and working together as athletic training professionals. Empowering each other forward. Not holding each other back.
What is the vision for the next 5-10 years?
To infinity and beyond 🙂 no but in all seriousness, we have big dreams and no intention of slowing down. We want to be in the room where it happens – since women belong there – as RBG so eloquently reminded us all. We strive to be a national presence. Some of the things we have on our roadmaps are Women in AT Panels at the various different conferences; being a CEU provider – and ultimately even a WAT conference; educational content that invigorates our members and challenges their daily practices in an empowering way. To us the phrase ‘empowering women empower women’ is highest goal. If we aren't meeting that – if we aren't finding ways to continuously empower and enrich or members then we aren’t meeting our mission.
Has COVID changed anything for women in AT vs men?
COVID has impacted athletic trainers in very intense and unique ways, most often adding even more work to an already overloaded schedule. This has only compounded the discrepancies between the genders in our profession. When athletics were suspended the workload at home was still expected to happen – and any form of work-life separation went out the window. Once everybody went back to work, many female athletic trainers found themselves having to miss work if kids’ daycares or classes got put in quarantine. For those that were furloughed all of the PTO previously banked for things like maternity leave, or parent life, etc those were eliminated. This carried over into our need to go to work, but our fear of bringing the virus home with us, when many of us remained the primary caregiver at home. Women in athletic training give their all to the safety of their athletes, and that intensified our work and preparation last summer, as we discussed COVID policies in our respective settings, and it intensified our stress and worry every day that we went to work.
Maternity leave vs no accrued PTO after furlough.
Megan – single female, when others have to go home to quarantine/take care of a child that has had school/daycare shut down then the single AT’s within the ATF have to help with coverage
How have you been able to help encourage equality through WAT?
WAT’s main purpose and reason for existing are to build each other up, to give each other support and a cheering section and a shoulder to cry on. In a (formerly) male-dominated profession, where many of us work alone, we need all of those things more than most jobs, because all athletic trainers feel beat down, and all of us need a listening ear. The push for equality comes from the support and the advocacy that we give each other in a profession that still isn’t equal for us. We are all part of a 9000-person team, with all the support, brains to pick, and camaraderie that a lot of us are missing at our jobs.
